[00:00:00] Nate Vogel: So I’m a big fan of McKinsey consulting, and they have a statistic where they’re referencing 70 percent of large transformational strategic initiatives fail. If you take that premise and think about from an enablement perspective, knowing that you’re going to have three or four or five big initiatives of the year.
[00:00:19] Nate Vogel: I believe a lot of it has energy when you launch and to get it rolled out, but then how do you change behavior? How do you make sure those large transformational strategic initiatives actually succeed? And there’s a big focus on reinforcement, but if you know that’s the statistic that you’re working for, then you can build your enablement strategy behind it.
[00:00:40] Steve Watt: Welcome to the enablement edge, the go to resource for enablement. And go to market pros. We’re bringing you the secrets, strategies, and tactics that drive meaningful impact. You’ll get valuable insights and expertise from enablement leaders so you can become an effective change [00:01:00] agent, turn strategy into reality, and transform your organization for the better.
[00:01:10] Steve Watt: Today on the Enablement Edge, we’re super excited to talk with Nate Vogel, He’s VP of Global Enablement at Databricks, and his career spans some tremendous companies. Enablement at Salesforce, Tableau, Gong, and more. This is a person with a tremendous wealth of experience, and I’ve actually listened to him.
[00:01:35] Steve Watt: On several other podcasts, I’ve heard him talk about the power of data and of mentorship and more. I wanted to go deeper, and I knew that the best way to do that was not only to get Nate on our show, but also to bring in my colleague and co host, Nate. Heather Cole, because Heather is an absolute expert in all of these areas.[00:02:00]
[00:02:00] Heather Cole: Well, I have to say that Nate has worked for some of the companies whose business is actually data. That’s what they do. So who better to talk about it than Nate? So I was very excited to hear that we were talking to, but that’s not all he cares about. He is very passionate about two other things. One of them is making sure that the managers.
[00:02:22] Heather Cole: Are enabled before you go and enable the rest of the team. And then the second piece is mentorship and servant leadership, which is fascinating to me. Um, he has used it throughout his career and he has some really good advice.
[00:02:36] Steve Watt: All right, well, let’s dig in. Neat. Thanks so much for joining us on the show today.
[00:02:41] Steve Watt: I am really looking forward to today’s conversation.
[00:02:45] Nate Vogel: Yeah, you bet. Honored to do it.
[00:02:47] Heather Cole: So we like to ask this question of all of our guests that come on. We see organizations that are all levels of maturity from just starting out to very, very mature and really driving transformation. And they’re [00:03:00] also defining enablement differently.
[00:03:02] Heather Cole: Not everybody sees it the same. But if we think about, ultimately, the outcome being, you know, great enablement is really getting there. And keeping more business. What do you think the most important thing that you can do in enablement function to ensure the success of it?
[00:03:18] Nate Vogel: Great first question. So, uh, you know, I’m a big data fan, so, you know, I’m going to probably go somewhere there.
[00:03:25] Nate Vogel: Um, but I feel like if you can show, uh, measurement frameworks with data, so you can show from onboarding to everboarding, which is that continued competency, you can showcase metrics on how the sellers are Cross functional teammates are supporting. We can go into more details around that, like marketing, how is the programs being launched and so on.
[00:03:48] Nate Vogel: If you have a ecosystem with partners, there’s some incredible metrics that you can showcase around how much partners are bringing into the business. And then overall at the end, which is especially in enablement, we want to show [00:04:00] that kind of ROI or impact from training all the way to business metrics, KPIs, and ultimately, as you said, helping impact revenue.
[00:04:09] Steve Watt: Nate, I know that data is central to your philosophy, to your, to your approach. And when you and I spoke last week, you told me a great story that goes all the way back to high school basketball and how that sort of set you on a path of being a data driven leader. I’d love it if you’d tell our listeners that story.
[00:04:31] Steve Watt: And then also, Tell them how that impacts what you do today.
[00:04:37] Nate Vogel: Yeah, so I’ll even go back before high school. So when I was a kid, I loved studying baseball and football cards. So I can, you know, remember looking back at Terry Bradshaw, incredible quarterback for the Pittsburgh Steelers, but I would literally study his data, his completion percentage.
[00:04:55] Nate Vogel: So I, you know, got very much into data as a kid. Then, uh, [00:05:00] correct. In high school, I played competitive basketball and I was, you know, showing data insights, even at that age. So I was like knowing that I would study competitors. And if I was guarding a player that scored a lot, but didn’t pass much, I knew that if he was potentially driving to the basket, that he’s more than likely going to shoot and not pass and vice versa.
[00:05:22] Nate Vogel: Uh, I’ve got a son who’s 13, uh, coaching him on basketball. And I try to say the same thing. Potentially someone that passes a lot, but doesn’t score much, you know, if they’re going to drive to the hole, more than likely they’re going to pass it. So, um, anyways, I love, love, love data. And then when I got into sales leadership.
[00:05:41] Nate Vogel: And I had 18 years of being a sales leader. I figured out with our team that if I could have my team do four more presentations a day, uh, over a selling period, that more than likely I could be sales leader of the year. So it was, you know, surely about enablement and training, but I just knew that if we could do a little [00:06:00] bit more presentations, um, that we would perform well as a team.
[00:06:04] Nate Vogel: And then that’s how I got into enablement is when I joined Tableau, I was able to see data and being able to see it visually. I just became a huge fan and I go on record, uh, my son’s first word was data who, uh, at the time was one. And that’s when I joined Tableau. So I was thinking, Oh man, even he gets it.
[00:06:25] Nate Vogel: My wife will say, uh, it’s daddy, but I will go on record to say it was data. So listen, I just absolutely love it. And for nine years did enablement at Tableau. And Salesforce. And then, um, got, uh, two years at gong. I’m a big fan of gong and the way that platform can enable and showcase enablement effectiveness or ineffectiveness.
[00:06:47] Nate Vogel: So we’ll get there. And now eight months here at Databricks doing a lot of the same things, you know, growing initiatives and training here with an enabled team. And I’m sure we’ll go deeper, but data is definitely part of my DNA, part of my blood [00:07:00] for sure. So I
[00:07:00] Steve Watt: think the heart of that basketball story, at least to me is that everyone’s different.
[00:07:04] Steve Watt: Yeah. You weren’t treating each of those players driving to the net, you weren’t treating them the same. You understood who had a propensity to shoot and who had a propensity to pass, and you were able to respond differently and ultimately be more successful. How has that helped you with enablement? I mean, you are leading an enablement for large teams of sellers and others.
[00:07:27] Steve Watt: There’s some very different personalities, very different people in there. How are you able to use that approach of having the right enablement for the right people?
[00:07:39] Nate Vogel: Well, I think data is my first, you know, kind of, uh, You know, main focus. My second probably would be framework. So how do you bring frameworks into organizations where it can scale, you can measure it, and you can make sure that you can have really good insights into that, but no question, you know, we’re doing some of the basic or fundamentals as part of [00:08:00] that framework.
[00:08:00] Nate Vogel: So not only putting people through onboarding or bootcamp, but then how do you define competencies by role? So an account executive might have. You know, big focus on discovery or account planning or selling to the C suite. And then your BDRs and XDRs, uh, you know, typically roles that are, or trying to get either leads or qualify leads.
[00:08:24] Nate Vogel: They might need to be up to speed on competitive intelligence. So I’m a big fan of frameworks where you can showcase, you know, measurement data frameworks that you can actually by role, really get some insight into their effectiveness and effectiveness. By the way, leaders, partners. So we can almost define every seller or someone that touches a customer.
[00:08:45] Nate Vogel: How do you define what their competencies are? And then of course, how do you put a measurement framework where you can showcase effectiveness or ineffectiveness of, of the training enablement?
[00:08:56] Heather Cole: So, Nate, you hit on the nail on the head of what I’m passionate [00:09:00] about, too, is that we have no lack of data, for the most part, that’s out there that we can measure.
[00:09:06] Heather Cole: And as an analyst at Forrester, I was always getting people coming to me saying, we have all this stuff, you know, like, we just, what do we do with it all? And being able to take it and putting it, putting it into a framework that says, okay, here’s how we can look at this to actually make it happen.
[00:09:22] Heather Cole: actionable. So the data is great, but the frameworks are what give you the ability to make it insight.
[00:09:28] Nate Vogel: That’s right. Well, speaking of consultants, so I’m a big fan of McKinsey Consulting, and they have a statistic where they’re, uh, you know, referencing 70 percent of large transformational strategic initiatives fail.
[00:09:42] Nate Vogel: And so, you know, if you take that premise and think about from an enablement perspective, or if you’re listening and you’re a senior sales leader, Knowing that you’re going to have three or four or five big initiatives of the year, and you’re going to either increase market share, increase competitiveness, [00:10:00] bring in a new product line.
[00:10:01] Nate Vogel: Think about the statistics says 70 percent of those five major initiatives will fail. And I remember sharing this statistic when I was at Gong with our chief, chief revenue officer at the time, Ryan, I said, Ryan, the statistics say 70 percent are going to fail. So if you look at the five that we have. And he said laughing, he’s like, none of those five can fail.
[00:10:24] Nate Vogel: I was like, well, I don’t understand. I mean, you saying we’re better than McKinsey. And so like we had a joke saying we’re not going to be a McKinsey statistic. So if you think about all those initiatives that are typically launched, I believe a lot of it has energy when you launch and to get it rolled out.
[00:10:41] Nate Vogel: But then how do you change behavior? How do you make sure those large transformational strategic initiatives actually succeed? And there’s a big focus on reinforcement. We can go deeper than that. Um, but if you know, that’s the statistic that you’re working for, then you can build your enablement strategy behind it.
[00:10:58] Nate Vogel: Yeah. How
[00:10:59] Steve Watt: do you, once you [00:11:00] know that to be true, how do you mitigate that risk? How, how do you avoid being the McKinsey statistic? How do you, how do you get in front of that to increase the likelihood of success?
[00:11:10] Nate Vogel: Yeah. And I’ll, I’ll probably reference more. Mistakes made than potentially like things to go do.
[00:11:16] Nate Vogel: But for my brain goes back to the mistakes that we’ve made. So if I go back to running enable on the tableau, one of the mistakes I believe I made early on, which I think will answer your question about how to help these succeed. I did too much enablement to rep versus what I should have done in our team enablement to manager, manager, or leader to rep.
[00:11:38] Nate Vogel: So as an example, messaging, almost every company rolls out a strategic messaging framework. There’s certain differentiators that you have. There might be core values that you have, but surely there’s features, product features that you’re trying to differentiate. Typically, an enablement company spends, you know, lots of hours, even potentially hiring [00:12:00] vendors to come help.
[00:12:01] Nate Vogel: But to actually reinforce behavior, takes a lot of work. And so how do you set up that reinforcement or adoption post launch? So one is make sure your managers are trained in advance of the messaging so they can model it. Number two, can you make sure that they can actually practice it themselves to feel comfortable?
[00:12:22] Nate Vogel: And then when you roll it out to the reps, The managers are the ones that are going to change the behavior and do reinforcement. Now, the big mistake I made is that you can spend all this time training reps, but if a leader or their leader actually does the old messaging or not the new way you want to position, then all the enablement that you just did really was, was a waste of time.
[00:12:45] Nate Vogel: So, so I’m a big fan of, of making sure that, you know, managers can enable, uh, get them enabled first, let them model. That’s going to be a huge difference. One other mistake, surely, that I think now that I look back on, try to do here at Databricks. [00:13:00] is that making sure that they understand the strategy of this rollout, that you not only show the training plan rollout.
[00:13:08] Nate Vogel: This was the mistake I made. I didn’t show the reinforcement and the adoption and the using tools and technology to also help with measurement and actually see impact analysis. So I’m a big fan of Whether it’s Gong or other tools where you can actually see adoption. And then going back to the executives and showing, Hey, not only are we seeing the adoption of this new messaging, but we’re actually seeing win rates increase, churn rates decrease.
[00:13:36] Nate Vogel: So let’s keep doing this. True story at Gong, I was able to sit down, um, you know, my team showing these metrics and, uh, me, the CEO said, you know, listen, keep doing that. And I even said, we know that we’re winning so much more every time a rep says X, Y, Z. Let’s push off the initiative that we were going to do next quarter, and let’s just, unless you feel this initiative is helping us win [00:14:00] 20 percent more and, you know, save churn 9%, and he’s like, no, I agree.
[00:14:05] Nate Vogel: Let’s keep doing that enablement. So that was one of the first times in my career where I was able to show, with data, the effectiveness and, and the behavior change, even to the point where we were, Getting the executives to say, Hey, go double down on that. Let’s keep doing it. Cause you’re showing that effectiveness.
[00:14:20] Nate Vogel: And that was a, a team, a team win for sure. But it’s definitely some lessons learned in my past. I wish I would have done differently.
[00:14:27] Heather Cole: Yeah, that’s a really good point, Nate. Two things. You know, you know that the reps are going to default to their comfort zone, even if they’ve, what you’ve taught them, they’re really pumped about using.
[00:14:37] Heather Cole: And if they fail once or twice with it, you know, they’re going back to doing whatever they did before. And if the managers aren’t all over it, like you said, it’ll fail. I guess my, I have a couple of questions on that one. First one is how are you, or, or are you either using data or holding the managers accountable?
[00:14:54] Heather Cole: Accountable in a positive way to making sure that this behavior [00:15:00] change is happening with their teams.
[00:15:02] Nate Vogel: Yeah. A couple of quick thoughts. So another, you know, lesson learned mistake made early on. Let’s say we go back to the messaging example, and we’re having this exactly happen right now here at Databricks, which is.
[00:15:12] Nate Vogel: When you’re creating this message, which typically is at, you know, product marketing and you’re having other cross functional teams support that is to really make sure they’re bought in on that reinforcement and adoption plan. So actually saying, okay, if we’re going to roll it out to the field this date, then we know that we want to train the managers this date.
[00:15:32] Nate Vogel: And we know that we’re going to actually have to Build that messaging this date. So one of the things that we were recommending is bring in sellers and people in the front line into those workshops to help them introduce and, and reinforce the messaging. So when you actually roll it out, you can say, not only was this done by product marketing, not only was this, you know, your managers have been trained, but the content was actually, you know, kind of built with the people [00:16:00] for the people.
[00:16:00] Nate Vogel: And so you can reference, uh, and in fact they can even help you kick off. The enablement. So that’s, that’s one, you know, other really important component. I keep mentioning partners. So if you think, if the messaging is super important, uh, message the field and you’re going to train the managers in advance, then you’re going to actually have sellers help you build the content.
[00:16:23] Nate Vogel: A few other times, especially Tableau and Salesforce, is we learned that, Hey, we got to make sure and train partners. So that was one of the things that we did really well is say, okay, now that we’re going to train the managers. We know it’s going to release to our customers here, but then let’s train partners, managers, sellers, and all these activities goes back to the, Hey, we don’t want to be a McKinsey statistic.
[00:16:45] Nate Vogel: Cause if we do it this way, then our partners are saying the same thing. Our managers are saying thing, the sellers are saying the same thing. It was built with the people for the people in a cross functional way with marketing and other. Key components of the business. Then when you train it, you [00:17:00] can measure the CSAT of that training, the customer satisfaction.
[00:17:03] Nate Vogel: So what does seller say about the training? You can measure before the training, during the training, after the training, confidence level, then you can use technologies and you know, I’m a big fan of seismic, but using, you know, technologies to see what reps are sharing with customers. You get that data and then you can use technologies to actually see the effectiveness.
[00:17:26] Nate Vogel: Conversation intelligence or other tools to showcase that. So then ultimately you can say from that beginning of training all the way to, you know, business impact. Increase win rates, decrease, you know, churn and so on. That’s a really powerful, in my opinion.
[00:17:43] Heather Cole: So you made a really good point that I don’t want to lose before too, that you said, when you looked at something that was working and saying, we could move on to our next thing that we were going to do.
[00:17:54] Heather Cole: But if we double down here, maybe broaden it, make it better, we can actually get more [00:18:00] results by continuing to focus at a deeper level on this thing that we’re doing right now. And that does two things. It, like you said, if 70 percent of what you’re doing of these big initiatives are failing, One of the reasons is because you don’t stop to look at what’s working in flight instead of at the end of the quarter or at the end of the year when it does or doesn’t work.
[00:18:18] Heather Cole: So I think that’s a really good point is that whole measure, monitor, modify kind of, you know, how do we get it better before it’s too late? Yeah, that’s fantastic insight.
[00:18:30] Nate Vogel: Yeah, you bet. And you, that, that’s great. Summary is, you know, 14 years of, uh, enablement experience and like three sentences. So those are a lot of things that I’ve, you know, me and my teams over the years have made mistakes on or couldn’t figure out.
[00:18:43] Nate Vogel: Yeah. A lot of pain. And yet I think we’re, we’re inching towards that, that ultimate goal where we can show influence from training to, you know, key business metrics. And then the, the part of our role and part of our job, is to show the data. Uh, and [00:19:00] enablement, uh, definitely something that’s also super important is, you know, to be truth tellers, uh, to lead with data.
[00:19:06] Nate Vogel: Sometimes that data is ineffectiveness and ineffectiveness of adoption. Uh, I love partnering with product marketing on a lot of these initiatives because we can go out together and say, Hey, listen, we have conversations with customers where they’re spending four minutes on these two slides and 10 seconds on these.
[00:19:28] Nate Vogel: Five other slides. So there’s something wrong. There’s something missing where we’re seeing it with what customers are saying. So this idea that you can go out and see adoption metrics and see what your customers are saying are super important. Back in the day, we normally would, and you can still do this by the way, it does take no technology.
[00:19:48] Nate Vogel: You can still go shadow sellers. I’m going to be doing this at Databricks here in Seattle. I’m going to go out and work with the account executives here in Seattle and Big, large accounts. And I can go see how they’re [00:20:00] selling and go see how they’re competing and positioning our platform. But if you, if you don’t have the flexibility or, or you, you know, don’t have the time, then this is where tools and technologies, you can really see the data and see that, you know, truth telling sometimes it’s giving bad news to saying, Hey, this isn’t working.
[00:20:20] Nate Vogel: And we’re, we’re seeing the, you know, feedback from the customers. We’re seeing when we say this. Certain key component of the feature. They’re confused. They’re not really sure how this adds a lot of value. And then we can go redo our enablement. So one of the things I think is super important in our role is that we can be that, you know, truth telling team to showcase data.
[00:20:41] Nate Vogel: And sometimes we’re actually telling the truth of our own work. Which is also hard, but it’s also something when you, you, you get a lot of conviction when you can say, Hey, listen, we got really great training scores. We got really strong CSAT. We got really good feedback about how much, you know, more confident they are in the [00:21:00] training.
[00:21:00] Nate Vogel: We’re seeing, they’re using the collateral and curriculum with our customers, but it’s not working. And so we, as it’s, you know, team can go kind of get insights into it and then ultimately come back. And, you know, reinforce or redo something. That’s what, and I have a real example of that at Tableau. We were competing against a very, very large vendor.
[00:21:21] Nate Vogel: We rolled out the training. Everyone thought it was amazing. And they thought, Oh, Nate, your team was incredible. But when you got out to the field in about 30 or 40 days, we weren’t winning anymore. And in fact, we were even doing worse than, than before. So we were able to, to say, you know, the training that we rolled out wasn’t effective.
[00:21:41] Nate Vogel: And here’s why. We were actually talking too much about Tableau and we should have been talking more about what the customer, customer’s customer is going to get. So we pivoted with other cross functional teams and we started showcasing kind of [00:22:00] what the customers that we were selling to, what their customer’s value was going to get.
[00:22:07] Nate Vogel: And that was a, you know, really big lesson learned and something I’m really proud of that we pivoted. From something that we didn’t do a good job with.
[00:22:14] Heather Cole: Yeah. And that’s, it’s a hard conversation to have, but it’s an easier conversation to have early than it is two quarters down the road, you’re sure. And that’s what, when we think about like the difference between having a voice at the table versus a seat at the table, when you’re transparent about that and you can catch it early and you can say, here’s what we’re doing about that problem, and it’s insight into real impact that you know that you’re not going to have because you can see it.
[00:22:38] Heather Cole: Only data and insight can give you that kind of power.
[00:22:41] Nate Vogel: Well, and a lesson learned this is for executives. And part of our job is to make sure you build that reinforcement and adoption plan, because it’s so easy to launch something and then roll it out for a little while, and then you’re on to something else.
[00:22:56] Nate Vogel: And that’s where I think that those metrics are so key. [00:23:00] Absolutely.
[00:23:01] Steve Watt: Something else, Nate, that I know you are super passionate about is mentorship. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever spoken to someone who is as enthusiastic about mentorship as you are. I’d like to ask you about this in two different lenses.
[00:23:16] Steve Watt: One, Is mentors for your own career development as a leader. I know that mentors have played an important role and continue to in your own success. Let’s start there and then let’s talk about building mentorship within your firm.
[00:23:32] Nate Vogel: Yeah. And I’ve been, so go back to maybe the, the data days or the, the sports days when I was in high school, I had found out quickly.
[00:23:40] Nate Vogel: If I can learn from someone else that is better at the sport than I am, has more experience, maybe made mistakes and I really responded to that in high school basketball. I was able to be mentored by these seniors and juniors when I was younger and I was able to pick up so much more and I’m a visual learner too.
[00:23:59] Nate Vogel: [00:24:00] So being able to see what people are doing, hear from experienced people. And so I take, I took that in almost every single. There’s usually a mentor program that’s like officially organized from companies, especially if you’re larger. Uh, Salesforce was amazing at this. They had a, you know, organized mentor program.
[00:24:20] Nate Vogel: We here at Databricks actually have a really good program. We pair up new account executives with seasoned account executives. I get no credit by the way, um, and my team built this. Those seasoned account executives actually help the new reps, Find their first new logo or new use case, um, here for Databricks.
[00:24:42] Nate Vogel: So they’re really, um, great mentor program. My favorite word is and not or, so it’s an and, so all those are really important. And I believe in, you know, you finding your own mentors and finding people that you can connect with, relate to. Uh, and [00:25:00] typically I’ll pick a skill or competency that I’m not good at and to get to a mentor to help me be successful.
[00:25:06] Nate Vogel: So how does that relationship work? I
[00:25:09] Steve Watt: know everybody supports the notion of mentorship and everybody says it’s a great idea. I don’t think most people are very good at cultivating and maintaining those relationships. How do you go about finding the right mentor? And then how do you go about working with them such that it’s a valuable experience for you both?
[00:25:29] Nate Vogel: Yeah, you bet. So I’ll talk first about example at Tableau, Francois. So at the time he was our chief product officer. He was very seasoned into the product. I was new to business intelligence and even new to technology. We just, you know, got along really well and I just asked him and, and usually not the first meeting.
[00:25:47] Nate Vogel: So over, you know, three or four meetings, probably my first three or four months there, I just said, Hey, can I ask you to be my mentor just once a month, meet with you just to come with some ideas and questions. It’s different than your [00:26:00] managers. Typically, you know, again, I would try to pick someone and some competency that I could get better.
[00:26:06] Nate Vogel: So for me, I’ve typically chosen product because that’s something I want to get better at. And so Francois was, you know, great. And I think once you build that relationship with a mentor over time, you become then, uh, you have others that want your time. And then you are helping kind of mentee others.
[00:26:25] Nate Vogel: Francois was a dear, dear friend of mine. And every month I would meet with him and pick his brain on what he’s seeing in the marketplace, like what he’s seeing out in the industry. He sees a lot of sellers. And so he was able to share with me, Hey, Nate, here’s some ways to improve enablement. Here’s some gaps.
[00:26:43] Nate Vogel: Here’s some things that I think you can do from your profession. But it was, uh, still, uh, a beautiful relationship even though I’ve gone with Tableau. He’s now gone and, uh, at a different company, but that relationship is still really important. So, my advice is, you know, find that mentor [00:27:00] that you look up to, that you want to learn from, and define what competency or what specific thing do you want from that mentor.
[00:27:08] Nate Vogel: That’s what was nice for me over the time, over time, is I knew exactly what I wanted and, Equally, I said to Francois, I’m gonna then mentor other people down, down the road. Now, I did tell him, hey Francois, I can help you in fashion a little bit too, which is my strength, so. He’s got, if you see him, he’s got Tom Ford glasses.
[00:27:28] Nate Vogel: I was, you know, helpful on some of that. So I was always, you know, kidding with him. He can help me on technology. I can help him dress a little better. So, uh, maybe we’ll tag him on this podcast. Yeah. Yeah. But seriously,
[00:27:40] Steve Watt: there’s got to be something in it for them as well. We had a little fun on it. So is it, am I getting it right?
[00:27:47] Steve Watt: Be, if you’re, if you’re kind of topic focused or skill focused, You would probably have more than one mentor at a time. You might have several for different, different areas of growth.
[00:27:57] Nate Vogel: Well, uh, yeah. And I think it’s a good call [00:28:00] out too. You know, I, I love coaching and teaching and the enablement profession, but I also love coaching and teaching my son’s basketball team.
[00:28:08] Nate Vogel: I want to be a better coach. There’s a another coach here that’s mentoring me who’s been coaching for a long time. So yeah, I don’t think it has to be just in work. Um, I’m a big fan of reading. I got some great books behind me. Yeah. One of my former mentors, Dan Moore, at the company Southwestern, I was at for a long time, talked about great leaders are great readers.
[00:28:29] Nate Vogel: And so, um, whether it’s a podcast or reading or studying, I’m, you know, a huge fan of that too. So there’s a lot of, you don’t have to necessarily have, quote unquote, a mentor mentee type relationship. There’s a lot that you can learn from, you know, great books out there, great podcasts and, and so on. Um, but, but it’s been a huge influence for sure on, you know, some really good books that I’ve read that I think help, help me and especially in leadership.
[00:28:56] Heather Cole: So there’s this balance between what we spoke a little bit about, like the [00:29:00] formal mentorship when you have a senior AE with a junior one, and sometimes those can work and sometimes the chemistry is not there and it’s awkward and they kind of fade away. And then sometimes it’s a much less formal, maybe with a framework that a company provides.
[00:29:14] Heather Cole: But how do you make something like that both effective and scalable?
[00:29:19] Nate Vogel: Yeah, I think it’s a good call out. And speaking of data, It’s good. It’s good to look at the data, right? So if you, if you see that there’s these formalized programs and they’re working, in other words, the one that we’re using here, where a seasoned account executive is mentoring a new account executive, and we’re seeing over time, these new account executives being more successful.
[00:29:41] Nate Vogel: Then we’re going to invest more in that program and in fact, really programize it. So, you know, here at Databricks, we have swag for the mentors. We invest in them. There’s a lot of energy around that, you know, and. There’s these relationships where you have over time a mentor and sometimes over [00:30:00] a year or two, the competency will change.
[00:30:02] Nate Vogel: You might have different mentors, different times where you might say, okay, that’s run its course. And there might be a new mentor. You might be in a new team or the business has changed or you had an acquisition, but I think this just constantly always having a mentor, I think it’s been a, been a big difference.
[00:30:21] Nate Vogel: So don’t get too caught up on titles and. Where people sit. It’s about learning. It’s about keep educating. I’ve always said you’re, you’re pretty much is only talented as good as the mentors you have surrounding yourself at one time. So I’m a, I’m a big fan of, you know, data and measurement, but I’m also just a big fan of acknowledging that maybe over time it’s okay to change mentors.
[00:30:49] Nate Vogel: You have new competencies. But if you’re still learning and you’re still being challenged by the mentor, you still feel like every hour you walk away inspired and educated [00:31:00] and felt invested in that, you know, that that mentorship program is working well, both officially or unofficially, depending on the program you’re at.
[00:31:08] Nate Vogel: Yeah,
[00:31:08] Heather Cole: it’s interesting because data is sometimes hard to get there. I remember, uh, we had a program at one point, a company I was at where it was more of a junior, like you’re, Even the AE situation where we had some mentors that were, we sometimes forget to mentor the mentors and give them training and like how to actually, you know, show up and we had one that was really popular and was doing a great job and people stuck with the mentor.
[00:31:31] Heather Cole: And we said, what are you doing differently? And she said, it’s very simple. I make them come to the call with three questions. You know, that’s it. Like, they have to have three questions. They can’t just show up and ramble for an hour. You know, it’s great to have conversations, but come with three questions.
[00:31:47] Heather Cole: And it was that simple, and that’s what made it work.
[00:31:49] Nate Vogel: Well, that’s great. Great advice. Really good.
[00:31:52] Steve Watt: Let’s talk about starting a new role, and how you balance the tension between [00:32:00] needing to make an impact. And the more senior you are, I think, the greater the expectation that you’re going to make an early, meaningful impact.
[00:32:09] Steve Watt: How do you balance the tension between the need to do that, but also the need to learn and, and really understand how this business may differ from places you’ve been in the past. You’ve started a number of new roles over the years. How do you approach that, Nate?
[00:32:27] Nate Vogel: Yeah, I’m smiling because it’s, it’s tricky and being in enablement, I have a point of view as far as when you start a new company and listen, I haven’t not started that many companies, I think four and 30 some odd years.
[00:32:39] Nate Vogel: So. Um, but I think for advice that I gave myself and the advice I give others is you’ve got to come in and be coachable and teachable no matter where you start. You typically are hired for your experience. I’m really impressed with Databricks. They have a core value called first principles. And so one of the core values [00:33:00] is that you, you want to bring your experience to the company, but you also want to keep an open mind that whatever your experience in the background, uh, or, you know, what you’ve had might not apply to the current state or situation.
[00:33:14] Nate Vogel: So I think that’s super important. I saw that when Salesforce acquired Tableau, you know, we, at that time, I was there for seven years and I was there pre IPO, post IPO. You know, this built a scale company and then Salesforce acquired us. And it was easy to try to get in the mind, mind frame of, Oh my gosh, we got to do everything Salesforce way.
[00:33:35] Nate Vogel: But if you have this mentality of always keep learning, always be coachable, always be teachable. Uh, I think it makes a huge difference. I’ve also said the phrase and I got this phrase from another mentor, uh, Kelly, right? Who gets a lot of credit for my success because Kelly and I worked together at Southwestern.
[00:33:53] Nate Vogel: But she was the first salesperson at Tableau and the first, uh, she was executive vice president of Tableau and she [00:34:00] brought me over to build out enablement. But I remember her giving me that advice. You know, when you start new companies, uh, try not to have sharp elbows. And I remember hearing that phrase and I was like, what does that mean?
[00:34:12] Nate Vogel: So I think, you know, she was saying like, be careful, come in and be coachable, teachable, uh, have, you know, surely a first principle mindset. Leverage your experience, but just don’t use sharp elbows. In other words, don’t force your way into an organization saying you’re going to do it my way because of X, Y, Z.
[00:34:31] Nate Vogel: And so that, that really, uh, really stuck with me as I’ve started, uh, not only here at Databricks, but also Gong and also when I was at Salesforce, which is this kind of coachability and teachability moment without having sharp elbows, but also having a lot of conviction around serving. Getting into, you know, organization’s competencies and really, you know, understanding that.
[00:34:53] Nate Vogel: So that’s why I was smiling a little bit, because when you start a new company, you got to onboard and ramp and learn all [00:35:00] about product. You surely got to learn about the company’s core values, got to understand the partnering ecosystem, but always in the back of my head, I’m saying to myself, don’t have sharp elbows.
[00:35:10] Nate Vogel: You know, typically, you know, make sure that you’re coming in and being coachable and teachable too. And I’ve found that I’ve given advice to others and surely applying that to myself right now.
[00:35:20] Heather Cole: That’s very good advice. It certainly is. So we have a set of kind of rapid fire questions that we like to ask, uh, if you want to play along for, for a few minutes here.
[00:35:33] Heather Cole: Let’s get your drink.
[00:35:34] Nate Vogel: I’m ready. That’s right. Got my drink. I’m ready to go. Awesome.
[00:35:37] Heather Cole: So, uh, the first one is, so if you’re thinking about looking into your crystal ball for the future, what do you think the one thing that will really change in enablement over the next 18 to 24 months?
[00:35:50] Nate Vogel: You know, it’s funny you bring this up because I’m talking about it a lot.
[00:35:54] Nate Vogel: So one of the honors I have is to be at the University of Washington here in [00:36:00] Seattle. They have a business school called Foster School of Business. And there’s a program called the sales program. You can actually get a minor in sales. I believe there’s only 197 schools that do this. So I’m on the advisory board.
[00:36:14] Nate Vogel: So I’m getting asked this quite a bit and even have an honor to periodically go in and do a guest lecture course. And I have been saying, and it’s been interesting as I’m spending a lot of time with students too, that AI, artificial intelligence and generative AI is going to change. Everything that we do, not just in sales or sales training, um, but enablement, but, but almost everything.
[00:36:39] Nate Vogel: And I have the honor to be at Databricks. We’re at the core and center of this. We help companies actually have strategy around their data and AI. Uh, we help companies really take it to market. And we just launched kind of our own model. Where companies can actually take our DBRX, our large language model, and own the data and make [00:37:00] sense of their data from a competitive standpoint.
[00:37:03] Nate Vogel: But it’s going to be happening everywhere. What I mean by that is an enablement. Classrooms, potentially down the road, are going to be either taught or served by a robot or artificial intelligence. And then that teacher or that professor is going to then own maybe the Q& A or the assessments around it.
[00:37:24] Nate Vogel: And by the way, warning, I’m a pretty positive person. So I believe that AI is going to help us be productive and actually help us take the time of a traditionally, uh, being in a co in a classroom, mostly, you know, 50 minutes of presenting and 10 minutes of Q and A. Uh, so the classrooms are going to be completely flipped.
[00:37:44] Nate Vogel: The way we’re going to enable it is going to be completely flipped. I believe every seller is going to have artificial intelligence with them. Every conversation that they have, every email that they send, the target of the customer that they’re [00:38:00] targeting, all this intelligence. So both human and AI combined.
[00:38:05] Nate Vogel: To me, this is going to be the selling of the future. Uh, I love being in it. This is one of the things I get honored to do at the business school to come bring up a point of view on this. And that’s why, you know, artificial intelligence using this new way of enabling, I think it’s going to really make a difference.
[00:38:25] Heather Cole: Absolutely. And, you know, it may sound like an obvious answer, but it’s something that is going to absolutely revolutionize everything that we do and from an enabler standpoint to make our lives so much easier. So on the flip side of that, what’s the one thing you think won’t change that is always going to stay the same?
[00:38:43] Nate Vogel: Well, I think data. I mean, I think measurement and data and frameworks. So I think in my opinion, and I will be a little bit more faster on my answer this time, but I think it’s just still going to be data. Now, how is that data produced might be different today than it is in the future, where I do believe a [00:39:00] lot of data will be created with intelligence tools and technology, uh, to give us that insight, but I still think.
[00:39:07] Nate Vogel: Showcasing ROI, um, showcasing influence where you can showcase enablement, measurement frameworks. Go back to how we started this conversation where you can measure the training and the impact that you had. You can actually see the effectiveness that managers, uh, in advance or they model the right behavior.
[00:39:27] Nate Vogel: You can see if your partners demonstrate the right skill and ability. You can actually see sellers adopting the new messaging, understanding the competitive framework. And then ultimately still show that business impact. So in my opinion, that won’t change, um, but it will be enhanced with, I believe, intelligence.
[00:39:45] Nate Vogel: Yeah,
[00:39:45] Heather Cole: really good point. So last one, what’s the best piece of advice that you’ve ever received that you would want to share with enablement professionals, um, either personally or professionally?
[00:39:58] Nate Vogel: Well, that’s a good question. [00:40:00] Uh, I’ll go with, I’ll just say it’s around service. or servant mentality, uh, especially being in the sales profession for a long, long time.
[00:40:11] Nate Vogel: Earlier in my career, I was too focused on skills or techniques to close a customer or close a situation or using techniques to mirror or match my customers conversations. And probably the thing I learned, mostly by mistakes, but, but also by seeing and seeing the right behavior is that servant mentality.
[00:40:38] Nate Vogel: The best way to sell is to serve. If sellers or companies or account executives within those companies, managers, partners, are all leading with a service minded mentality, where they’re trying to find true authentic customer needs. Trying to discover pain points, not because you were [00:41:00] taught a technique, but you’re generally trying to actually understand if your solution can help or not.
[00:41:06] Nate Vogel: I have found to be extremely rewarding. So you can take that from a selling situation. You can take that from an enablement perspective around serving. I tell the sales team all the time, they’re my client, they’re our team’s client. We work for them. You know, our job is to help them hit and exceed the targets.
[00:41:25] Nate Vogel: So we, you know, view the account executives truly as, as customers. And even, we’ll go down to a personal note. Every day when I, my son leaves to bus, I say to, you know, jumps on the bus, I say, Make sure you try to help some people today. Extend your reach. Make sure that, you know, and I try to tell them, Vision is not just for the basketball court, it’s also for life.
[00:41:48] Nate Vogel: The more you serve, the more you will truly get joy. And so I’m a big fan of, of adding that in a craft and an enablement craft. But I also think that’s a, you know, just [00:42:00] important life lesson that I try to share with obviously my son and Shirley, try to model that. What a great, just
[00:42:05] Heather Cole: gave me. Yeah, that’s a great advice.
[00:42:08] Heather Cole: And you just gave me like, I have five kids. So the, what I’m going to ask them today when they come home is who did you help today?
[00:42:14] Nate Vogel: That’s right. That’s right. That’s really, really good. Yeah. Thank you. Let me know. Uh, You know by the way warning parents out there 90 percent your kids are gonna say the same thing like no But once in a while, and it does happen.
[00:42:25] Nate Vogel: He tells me a story He tells me a story how he helped someone and saw a situation and there’s nothing better for a parent whether you’re you know Trying to help your you know your kid to kind of develop in that way Or you’re in the enablement profession where you’re trying to serve and trying to help, uh, you know, ultimately the customer.
[00:42:43] Nate Vogel: So what a fantastic note
[00:42:45] Steve Watt: to end today’s conversation on Nate. Thank you so much for joining us. You bet. It’s been an absolute pleasure getting to know you and, uh, hearing your insights from your, Long and very successful career.
[00:42:58] Nate Vogel: Thank you. [00:43:00] You bet, you bet. Well, for all the folks out there listening, thank you for listening.
[00:43:03] Nate Vogel: And I always say, keep learning, keep serving. So, thanks again for having me. Thanks
[00:43:09] Steve Watt: for joining us on the Enablement Edge. We’re on YouTube. And all your favorite podcast providers. See you next time.
[00:43:17] Voiceover: The Enablement Edge is brought to you by the team at Seismic. Seismic is the global leader in enablement, keeping organizations on the cutting edge of engaging customers, enabling teams and igniting revenue growth.
[00:43:30] Voiceover: You can learn more at seismic. com.
